Where is the UFO community heading?

[Rick Deckard]

I'm gonna start this thread with a few simple questions and go from there:

What is the point of the UFO community?
What are we trying to achieve?
How will we know when we've achieved it?
What will we do after that?

Opinions, please.

[Aaron LeClair]

1. Dunno. Depends on the person I think.

2. Only speaking for myself, understanding and advancing the human experience.

3. There is no dead end to it, so it can never be fully achieved. A milestone would be a dead or alive alien thrown out on display. Or a crash in a big city.

4. After proof? Study and learn from it. What happens next is dependent on what is found out.

[David Biedny]

The point is this:

Some of us have had encounters with UFOs, and want to understand what is going on, why these experiences have happened and what they mean. In my own life, I've had more than a few sightings, along with a variety of other paranormal occurances, and have reached a point where I can no longer bury these experiences and ignore them in my day to day existence.

Hence, I'm doing this show with Gene, in order to speak to other folks who also wonder about the meaning of these experiences and episodes.

The only way to gain some insight it to discuss, debate and use some amount of deductive reasoning to arrive at some truth.

I know, a little simplistic, but that's my own approach.

dB

[Rick Deckard]

Originally Posted by David Biedny

The point is this:

Some of us have had encounters with UFOs, and want to understand what is going on, why these experiences have happened and what they mean. In my own life, I've had more than a few sightings, along with a variety of other paranormal occurances, and have reached a point where I can no longer bury these experiences and ignore them in my day to day existence.

Hence, I'm doing this show with Gene, in order to speak to other folks who also wonder about the meaning of these experiences and episodes.

The only way to gain some insight it to discuss, debate and use some amount of deductive reasoning to arrive at some truth.

I know, a little simplistic, but that's my own approach.

dB

And I appreciate all your efforts - it's a great show

I, on the other hand, have not had any such experiences but I am convinced that 'something is going on' - I have felt that way for a long time but I realise that that conclusion is based solely on second-hand experience. And that's where the problem lies for me - it's not that I wish to have such an experience (because I don't) but I'm at the point now where I don't know what is real and who to believe any more.

I am amazed that after 60 years collecting these reports of such experiences, we haven't yet arrived at a point where we say 'yep, there is enough evidence to prove that some UFOs are craft of a non-terrestrial origin' or something close to that.

I now wonder why that is.

I feel that the 'UFO community' is it's own worst enemy - if every serious researcher came together, compared notes and contributed to a single database of all known cases, I'm pretty sure that a rock-solid case could be made to prove once and for all that the UFO subject requires serious consideration from everyone on this planet. Maybe then, pressure will be brought to bare on those with the answers to let us have 'the truth'.

As an aside, if a 'credible individual' approached you directly, gave you a convincing report of 'the facts' but made it quite clear that you couldn't disclose them to anyone else, could you live with that?

[Gene Steinberg]

Originally Posted by Rick Deckard

And I appreciate all your efforts - it's a great show

I, on the other hand, have not had any such experiences but I am convinced that 'something is going on' - I have felt that way for a long time but I realise that conclusion is solely based on second-hand experience. And that's where the problem lies for me - it's not that I wish to have such an experience (because I don't) but I'm at the point now where I don't know what is real and who to believe any more.

I am amazed that after 60 years collecting these reports of such experiences, we haven't yet arrived at a point where we say 'yep, there is enough evidence to prove that some UFOs are craft of a non-terrestrial origin' or something close to that.

I now wonder why that is.

I feel that the 'UFO community' is it's own worst enemy - if every serious researcher came together, compared notes and contributed to single database of all known cases, I pretty sure that a rock-solid case could be made prove once and for all that the UFO subject requires serious consideration from everyone on this planet. Maybe then, pressure will be brought to bare on those with the answers to let us have 'the truth'.

As an aside, if a 'credible individual' approached you directly, gave you a convincing report of 'the facts' but made it quite clear that you couldn't disclose them to anyone else, could you live with that?

To be a devil's advocate here: Why would anyone tell you or anyone such a thing to begin with? I do agree, however, that the UFO community, such as it is, is one big mess. We see more and more of that as we wade through the claims, counterclaims, personal attacks and all the rest.

On the other hand, David and I are optimistic enough to think that we can shine the light on a few facts here and there, and maybe help others to do some real research before they give up in frustration.

I think you probably recall our recent interview with Tim Beckley, where his frustration seethed out of every sentence. Do you remember how he said he used his earnings from writing and publishing to do real on-site research. Where did that take him? Well, beyond selling the article to a magazine from time to time, it got him nowhere. No wonder he's jaded. He's not alone, sad to say.

[Rick Deckard]

Originally Posted by Gene Steinberg

To be a devil's advocate here: Why would anyone tell you or anyone such a thing to begin with?

Well, what I'm getting at there is motive - it seems pretty obvious to me that those who've had an 'experience' have a genuine desire to get to 'the truth' and are sincere in their efforts. Whereas I do question the motives of others in the UFO field of research who have not had such experiences and who seem more interested in the 'next story' rather than getting to 'the truth'.

Originally Posted by Gene Steinberg

I think you probably recall our recent interview with Tim Beckley, where his frustration seethed out of every sentence. Do you remember how he said he used his earnings from writing and publishing to do real on-site research. Where did that take him? Well, beyond selling the article to a magazine from time to time, it got him nowhere. No wonder he's jaded. He's not alone, sad to say.

Doesn't that indicate it's time for a different approach?

[Gene Steinberg]

Originally Posted by Rick Deckard

Well, what I'm getting at there is motive - it seems pretty obvious to me that those who've had an 'experience' have a genuine desire to get to 'the truth' and are sincere in their efforts. Whereas I do question the motives of others in the UFO field of research who have not had such experiences and who seem more interested in the 'next story' rather than getting to 'the truth'.

I worry about some folks who apparently have one or two good experiences, develop a following, and must then manufacture some additional encounters to make their 15 minutes of fame last another 15 minutes or so.

But as far as folks looking for the "next story" are concerned, if it's part of the road to legitimate investigation, that's fine. If it leads them to accept or promote things that just aren't so, that's another problem, and one quite serious, alas.

[Rick Deckard]

Does the prospect of ETIs revealing themselves to the world scare you at all? I can't imagine what the world would be like 'post-disclosure'.

How does the saying go "Careful what you wish for - it may just come true..."

[Gene Steinberg]

Originally Posted by Rick Deckard

Does the prospect of ETIs revealing themselves to the world scare you at all? I can't imagine what the world would be like 'post-disclosure'.

I really don't think that's going to happen any time soon. I think enough time has passed to make it quite clear the forces behind such things have another agenda.

[Rick Deckard]

Originally Posted by Gene Steinberg

I really don't think that's going to happen any time soon. I think enough time has passed to make it quite clear the forces behind such things have another agenda.

So, all we have are reports of past (transient) events - the best that the 'UFO community' can do is convince 'everyday folks' that there's more to UFOs than the tabloids view of 'little green men'...

...but I'm pretty sure that 'everyday folks' will continue not to take any notice.