What if polite species avoid fact-to-face contact as a rule?

[Kevin Daly]

Originally Posted by fitzbew88

We can't have it both ways. We can't theorize that the grays are interfaces so that we can cope with what we see, and then say they are different because it is less off-putting.

Yes we can, 'cos I just did

The key is the "Uncanny Valley" argument. You can check out the Wikipedia definition (I know, I know) here (the idea was originally expressed in robotics, but it has been proposed that such an effect applies to CGI as well)

If an alien (or whatever) is, as is likely, very unlike us we may get a bad case of the willies and lose our tiny minds in a satisfyingly Lovecraftian manner (OK I'm exaggerating a little). On the other hand, if the imitation of humanity is very good, the presence of even small differences or inconguities can cause a negative reaction.

To quote from the above article:
"Mori's hypothesis states that as a robot is made more humanlike in its appearance and motion, the emotional response from a human being to the robot will become increasingly positive and empathic, until a point is reached beyond which the response quickly becomes that of strong repulsion. However, as the appearance and motion continue to become less distinguishable from a human being, the emotional response becomes positive once more and approaches human-to-human empathy levels.^[2]
This area of repulsive response aroused by a robot with appearance and motion between a "barely-human" and "fully human" entity is called the uncanny valley. The name captures the idea that a robot which is "almost human" will seem overly "strange" to a human being and thus will fail to evoke the empathetic response required for productive human-robot interaction.^"

Now to cheat and suggest a completely different rationale: They might choose a just-alien-enough appearance because they think that's the sort of thing we'd expect, while reasoning that (Star Trek notwithstanding) we're clever enough to work out that anything that looks *exactly* like us either is us, or is a deception.

[fitzbew88]

Originally Posted by Kevin Daly

Yes we can, 'cos I just did

But doesn't it leave us in a vacuum: If they look identical to us it's because they don't want us to be anxious. If they only look somewhat like us, it's because they don't want us to be anxious.

Or at a minimum, the theory would become moot. Any data would fit the theory!

[mike]

or perhaps the "intellect" behind the craft isnt organic at all, and simply "grows" its own interface from the existing gene stock of each funtioning biosphere it encounters as it travels the universe.

[Kevin Daly]

Originally Posted by fitzbew88

But doesn't it leave us in a vacuum: If they look identical to us it's because they don't want us to be anxious. If they only look somewhat like us, it's because they don't want us to be anxious.

Or at a minimum, the theory would become moot. Any data would fit the theory!

That's why I wouldn't call it a theory, just a hypothesis.
I merely raise the possibility as one worth considering that I think is not inherently ridiculous. I don't pretend it's the answer to anything, or that there's enough evidence to support it.

We have a serious lack of useful data (including examples of non-terrestrial life), and as you rightly point out it's easy to cherrypick data to fit any point you want to make, especially given the uncertainty about which reports reflect reality and which are bogus (or real but distorted).

Additionally of course, if there are or have been over time multiple races visiting us from...wherever, then some may do what I've suggested and some may not.

The only thing I'd say with confidence is that I don't think it likely that a truly alien species would be able to pass for human in person (although time travellers could...but that's another can of worms). So if you come across something that looks exactly human, either it is human, or it's faking it one way or another.

As a side note: I was surprised that at the height of the Alien Autopsy hoax very few people pointed out that the alleged "body" looked to all intents and purposes human - the head was a bit different of course, but the shape, proportion, and articulation of the limbs for instance was exactly human. That's asking a bit much of convergent evolution, and should've given it away immediately.

[fitzbew88]

Originally Posted by mike

or perhaps the "intellect" behind the craft isnt organic at all, and simply "grows" its own interface from the existing gene stock of each funtioning biosphere it encounters as it travels the universe.

Fascinating. But, do you think they would dare to leave such a thing to chance? I mean, what if you get to some new planet and the genetic material is incompatible or contaminated or everybody looks like Gene Wilder.

If I was Chief Alien Interface Coordinator, I would want to minimize the unknowns.

[fitzbew88]

Originally Posted by Kevin Daly

That's why I wouldn't call it a theory, just a hypothesis.
I merely raise the possibility as one worth considering that I think is not inherently ridiculous. I don't pretend it's the answer to anything, or that there's enough evidence to support it.

Ah. Sorry, I didn't understand what you were going for there.

[mike]

Originally Posted by fitzbew88

Fascinating. But, do you think they would dare to leave such a thing to chance? I mean, what if you get to some new planet and the genetic material is incompatible or contaminated or everybody looks like Gene Wilder.

If I was Chief Alien Interface Coordinator, I would want to minimize the unknowns.

incompatible with what ? the process ?

my suggestion is that inorganic intellect travelling the universe might on encountering organic intellect , simply "clone" its interface from that species own DNA.
the process of cloning may or may not differ from location to location.

we ourselves send crude robot probes to other planets to collect and study "samples", this is the same process only more sophisticated

[fitzbew88]

Originally Posted by mike

incompatible with what ? the process ?

my suggestion is that inorganic intellect travelling the universe might on encountering organic intellect , simply "clone" its interface from that species own DNA.
the process of cloning may or may not differ from location to location.

But would you leave something like that to chance? What if you get there and you can't make an interface due to some unforeseen circumstance?

Originally Posted by mike

we ourselves send crude robot probes to other planets to collect and study "samples", this is the same process only more sophisticated

No, this is not the same process. We are not waiting to build our tools after arriving on site. We bring all our tools with us, and leave as little to chance as possible.

[Irishseekers]

Polite i dont think they believe in being polite!! When i invite people to my house, I would not expect them to brings strangers whom i had not invited.
I consider this phenomen to be intruders, they got no permission from me!! they invited themselves pretty ignorant. They dont respect us if the storys of Abductions are true!! We believe in free will so to speak. The ufo phenomen does not respect our christian ideals and principles, quiet simply human morals do not seem relevant or something to be respected. The ufo occupants for me at least, dont consider politeness as a relevant principle.

When i look at humans in power take George Bush as a example president of the most powerful country in the world. How did he respect other nations and there peoples!!!Think about it for a minutes or two.
Does the PHENOMEN that is ufos seem any different yes it is not human as far as we can tell? our is it human? but not humans that live openly in cities, towns, villages, Well it only a suggestion.

look at our history hitler, stalin, napleon bonaporte,julias ceasar this are just a few leaders from our past that influenced our culture and our world but yet the leaders didnt respect peoples from different countries in which they lived. Dont get me wrong as of this date ufos havent acted out in any aggressive way as far as i can tell. But yet things like Abductions seem to be going all through our history. They do it in stealth not openly why??c What is the principle motive for Abductions, Why i brought up the above leaders, ok with power comes responsibility, and ufos seem to have greater power and responsibility yet they dont seem to want to interact or god forbid attack us as far as we can tell.

It is could be possible wars are not something they have ever undertook?It is could be just a human pasttime? How they fight wars might be completely different to how we fight ours? I am always ranting lollol.

[Aaron LeClair]

Originally Posted by fitzbew88

Wow. That is a fascinating theory.



But Aaron raises a good question here..if they are going to go to all that trouble, why not make the "interfaces" look as much like us as possible? Dear God, they could at least add a blonde wig.

I recall a story of a famous astronomer sniping at an abductee by saying that it was strange that the aliens chose to abduct us instead of cows or giraffes or dolphins or some other more interesting animal. She replied with something to the effect that they are interested in us because we look like them, and that maybe the aliens that look like cows abduct cows.

It still makes me giggle.

They may very well abduct cows too.