Way to settle the Zeta Riticuli debate forever?

[Aaron LeClair]

Originally Posted by Irishseekers

Seti the only thing it will ever find or hear, Is the radio station that plays in the background of there office

The "big Wow" signal received back in the 70s is still a mystery last I heard. Anyone know if this signal was ever explained away?

[Irishseekers]

Originally Posted by Aaron LeClair

The "big Wow" signal received back in the 70s is still a mystery last I heard. Anyone know if this signal was ever explained away?

I would like to know more if you wouldnt mind

[marduk]

Originally Posted by Irishseekers

I would like to know more if you wouldnt mind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

The Wow! signal was a strong, narrowband radio signal detected by Dr. Jerry R. Ehman on August 15, 1977, while working on a SETI project at the Big Ear radio telescope of the Ohio State University. The signal bore expected hallmarks of potential non-terrestrial and non-solar system origin. It lasted for 72 seconds, the full duration Big Ear observed it, but has not been detected again. It has been the focus of attention in the mainstream media when talking about SETI results.

Amazed at how closely the signal matched the expected signature of an interstellar signal in the antenna used, Ehman circled the signal on the computer printout and wrote the comment "Wow!" on its side. This comment became the name of the signal.

[Experiencer7]

Originally Posted by marduk

I've always had a problem with the SETI folks... why are we sure at all that if someone were there they'd be using radio. Seems very anthropomorphic.

There's lots of other potential ways to transmit and receive information... like optically (lasers), using gravity waves, neutrinos, even the "spooky action at a distance" with QM. And lots, I'm sure, that we haven't even thought of.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't take a look in the radio spectrum to check it out, but as Friedman says "Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."

Even if we did eventually detect artificially generated radio signals. There is no guarantee that the culture who produced them would still be out there.

[valiens]

Do radio waves travel forever in space? I mean if a culture a kagillion years ago used radio waves to transmit a signal, would we just now be receiving it?

If yes, then why haven't we received anything at all from randomly pointing the receiver? I always assumed it's the needle in haystack thing but if signals travel forever and the universe is full of life, wouldn't we have been inundated with random signals from all around from all throughout time?

[Hoffmeister]

Okay, first of all I will try and answer some of the questions that people have been asking here.
I am no expert on SETI but do know a little about it. Second of all, I feel we have digressed from the main topic which is actually that we can now tell whether stars have habitable planets around them and that this technology should be used to see if there is anything around Zeta.
I am currently composing some information from a collection of articles just to highlight this so you guys know what i'm on about, but you should also watch the documentary I mentioned in the first post as its great and explains it well.
I am going to post this info I have collated soon but it takes me a little while as I get up at 6am, go to my job as a recruitment manager, then go to the gym at 7pm, then work on my ebay business for the rest of the night (while listening to the paracast) so it may take me a day or two to get it done.

Anyway, regarding the questions so far:
1. About the wow incident: i dont know if i am thinking of the exact same one as you but I know saw an article with the Seti founder (i forget his name now but he's the dude with the equation that says there are millions of aliens out there) saying he has had many wow moments, the first one turned out to be a signal bouncing off a plane (or bouncing off the atmosphere onto a plane or something)

2. Do radio waves travel for ever in space? Again I am no expert but have read a lot about it and well basically yes they do travel forever (just as light does) but the further they go, the more the information within them dissipates (horribly unscientifically written but i am trying to explain in laymans terms). Someone worked out that even if the radio waves got to one of our nearest stars, they would need a ridiculously large satelite dish/array to pick it up, i dont remember the exact size but we are talking many many times bigger than SETI's and even then they would have to be pointing in the right direction at the right time. Also, we havent been inundated with singals because the waves only travel at the speed of light, and therefore even if our nearest star was transmitting it would take (from memory) 36 light years to get here. Most stars are much further away and the ones that are producing radio signals could be billions of light years away for all we know.

Anyway, I am going to work on composing some info on how we can see planets.... and particularly exciting is the fact that in 2012 or 2015 (i forget) we are going to be putting a telescope in orbit that will literally let us be able to see the planets around stars that are something like 150 light years (again from memory) away, AND detect whether there is life on it.
I think that will pretty much conclude the Zeta riticuli debate even if we can't do it now, which i believe we can

[Hoffmeister]

oh, and i should say that the more power used in the source of the radio waves, the more easily someone would be able to pick it up (seems obvious) and from a farther distance.
Our first transmission as I'm sure you all know from watching the film Contact was Hitler at the Olympic games and this would have been a very weak transmission. Even today if we want people to hear us I think we would need a specifically designed transmitter blasting out at a really high output. But then again, all of what I am saying is just from what I have read other mainstream scientists saying so don't take my word as gospel.

[marduk]

Yes, the radio signals will expand forever... but the further they go the more they diminish in signal strength. Think of a balloon. The bigger it gets inflated, the thinner (and weaker) it gets.

As for pointing it in any random direction, you also have to consider the length of time a civilization will be putting out radio signals. For example, a civilization somewhere in the so-called "Galactic Habitable Zone" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitab...habitable_zone) could be as far as 50K light years from earth, meaning that it would take 50,000 years for the signal to reach us. It would expand out in a sphere from the civilization's center and reach us when that sphere was 50,000 light years wide.

However, if you think of that sphere as an eggshell, the thickness of the wall of the sphere would be the length of time the civilization was transmitting signals. Presumably this wouldn't last forever -- civilizations may outgrow using radio or simply die off. I've heard current estimates that mankind would transmit radio signals for about 200ish years. This means that that sphere would be 50,000 light years wide but perhaps only 200 light years thick.

So our civilization, which only recently acquired the ability to receive the signals would have to be around and listening exactly 50,000 years +- 200 years from the time the ET civilization sent it. That's a statistically unlikely event even if you assume a large number of ET civilizations.

[Hoffmeister]

Haha, listen to the guy above, his explanations are far better than my un-technical ramblings. Ah well, what can i say, its late and i'm tired....

[Hoffmeister]

So I think some of this data is a little out of date as its mostly from about a year ago, and we are finding new planets every day. But here is a few out takes from one article:

"Earth-like planets may have formed around most of the Milky Way’s Sun-like stars, according to research that shortens the odds on the discovery of extra-terrestrial life.
Observations using Nasa’s Spitzer Space Telescope have found that at least 20 per cent — and perhaps as many as 60 per cent — of our galaxy’s Sun-like stars are good candidates for having rocky planets of the sort that can harbour life.
The findings offer further evidence suggesting that such worlds may be common in the galaxy, which would greatly enhance the prospects for finding one on which life has developed.
Last week another team of astronomers announced the discovery of a star system about 5,000 light years from Earth that looks like a “scale model” of our own Solar System.
The star system — 5,000 light years away — boasts smaller versions of the Sun, Jupiter and Saturn and it is possible that smaller, rocky planets like Earth and Mars could be orbiting closer in.
The discovery suggests that solar systems like ours, with gas giants on the outside and Earth-like worlds nearer the central star, may be common in the Milky Way."

For more info on the new super telecopse visit:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1719516.ece

And for an older article on one of the first earthlike planets found check:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1701373.ece

And again, the point being that if we can see planets 1000's of light years away, lets see whats at Zeta in an effort to converge mainstream science, and Ufology.... the only problem is, i'm not sure who it is in charge of the telescopes that we need to ask..... maybe i'll email Seth and see if he knows.