Way to settle the Zeta Riticuli debate forever?

[Hoffmeister]

Hi guys.
I recently saw a documentary, i think it was "are we alone in the universe" from channel 4 England (you can find it on 4OD or quicksilverscreen.com etc) that showed the very recent advances in technology that now allow us to look at stars very far away and tell how many planets they have around them, and whether any of these planets fit into what I think they called the green belt:- the thin area in which a planet can exist so that it is able to support life. By this i mean not too far away to be cold, and not too close to be hot.
A recent newspaper article i read comented on this and said that scientists are now using this data as a kind of cosmic 'Yellow pages' for SETI, so that instead of randomly scanning the sky, they can point the dishes at planets which they know have the potential for life.

Now surely one way to settle the Zeta riticuli theory for good would be for the scientists to use the new advancement in technology (which is basically done by detecting the gravity wobbles of the planets around the stars) to see if there are any planets around the supposed stars that the aliens that abducted Barney and Betty Hill.
Furthermore, we could get our old friend (or enemy depending on where you stand) Seth Shostak to point his dishes directly at them to see if we get any signals.
Its seems to me that this would be one way to settle the debate once and forall. Is it Zeta Riticuli or Zeta Ridiculi? Is Barney and Betty Hills story based on fact or is it as made up as Barney and Betty Rubble?

Personally i'm gunning for Stantons team as i think he's such a great character, but on the other hand I think Seths kind of quirky too.

NB: i think the documentary was the channel 4 one, but anyway if you look on the net you can find info on how they can check stars for habitable planets now

[Aaron LeClair]

Seth Poostack has said they've pointed at the Zeta region many times and never received a signal.

In time, we'll be able to detect smaller and smaller planets and this could help.

[CapnG]

ZR is a binary system though. I don't know if our detection systems are sophisticated enough to take that into account just yet.

[dusty]

Also though they are binaries they are still seperated by something like 9000 AU.
Still I would at least like to see seti aimed that way, though I dont really think
they will find anything.

Peace,

Mark

[Hoffmeister]

Originally Posted by Aaron LeClair

Seth Poostack has said they've pointed at the Zeta region many times and never received a signal.

In time, we'll be able to detect smaller and smaller planets and this could help.

Actually from what I have read and watched, we are now very capable of detecting quite small planets. Apparently most of the stars that they are now pointing at using this technology appear to have planets around them, and they have also found atleast 1 earth-like planet (with regards to distance from sun and size etc).

This is encouraging basically every main stream scientist to believe that there is other life out there. Until very recently, they have been saying that there must be life out there simply because of the number of stars out there even though we arent sure what percentage have their own planetery systems. But now they are discovering that almost all of the stars they point at appear to have planets around them, and not only that, they are able to tell the distance from their sun, the size and in some cases what materials they are mostly made up of.

Now its been about 2 months since i saw the doc and read the articles (i will try to find them when i get timne, i think they were at www.timesonline.co.uk or the bbc news site) so i can't exactly quote how many solar systems they have found but memory tells me it was something like 60 or so (its a slow process for them to do it) and they have found 1 definate earth-like planet.

So whilst i need to research the subject a little harder, it would seem apparent that they should just be able to check out the Zeta system and see if there is anything there.
It wouldn't give proof one way or the other since if there is a planet there of potential habitable status, it doesnt neccesarily mean there are aliens on it, and if there isnt anything there I suppose we cant guarentee the technology is 100% foolproof but either way it would be interesting to find out and would be a great way of converging modern mainstream science with the 'percieved' less scientific methods of Ufology.

And thats just it in my opinion, I know that Seth and his 'SETI cultists' are generally hated in the UFO community but I honestly don't see why. He is trying to find the Aliens just like Stanton & co, and although his methods are different and probably a bit naive, if there is even a small percentage of it working we might as well have it there rather than not.
Whilst the UFO community spends its whole time arguing with Seth, it should take the moral high ground and just accept that he is trying to do it his way, and we are doing it our way.

In Ufology, 99% of the stuff going round is complete nonsense. We have idiots like Dr Greer running round talking about Tesla creating zero point energy, we have little old ladies claiming that UFO's turn up outside her house whenever she wants them to, we have mexican CGI companies putting out fakes just to boost their ego's for their own CGI creating ability, and on top of that we have the US and other governments doing everything they can to hide any of the real evidence, so you can't really blame Seth for not believing in UFO's.

Anyway, i'm having a bit of a rant now and this topic has turned out to be more of a debate than anything for the question bank, but it would be interesting to get these scientist to see if there are any planets in the Zeta region. When i get time i'll try to dig out the articles I mentioned.

[marduk]

Originally Posted by Aaron LeClair

Seth Poostack has said they've pointed at the Zeta region many times and never received a signal.

In time, we'll be able to detect smaller and smaller planets and this could help.

I've always had a problem with the SETI folks... why are we sure at all that if someone were there they'd be using radio. Seems very anthropomorphic.

There's lots of other potential ways to transmit and receive information... like optically (lasers), using gravity waves, neutrinos, even the "spooky action at a distance" with QM. And lots, I'm sure, that we haven't even thought of.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't take a look in the radio spectrum to check it out, but as Friedman says "Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."

[CapnG]

Originally Posted by marduk

I've always had a problem with the SETI folks... why are we sure at all that if someone were there they'd be using radio.

I have always argued that that is the inherent flaw in SETI.

[Hoffmeister]

I agree. I think its very unlikely that we'll pick anything up. A civilization probably would use radio waves for communication for a maximum of 200 years IMO, and the chances of any civilizations being not only within that two hundred year window, but also to be near enough to us and to have a sufficiently large listening dish set up seems to me to be very small. But like I said, even if its just a 0.0001% chance of them discovering anything, we might as well have them there.

The general public are more open to SETI, and make less of a mockery of them than the UFO crew because radio waves are something tangible that they understand. Its for that reason that I think the Ufologists should try and bring themselves closer to SETI whilst shedding themselves of the nutjobs like 'Dr "I have seen grown men weep over the subject" Greer' so that gradually over time it becomes less of a laughed at subject and perhaps will then get more people coming forward (without fear of ridicule), more rich people (like Paul Allen) helping to invest in studies and generally better press in the media.

Doing all of this, and also somehow coming up with a measurable way of looking for UFO's which is based upon science that the masses understand (something which would probably require the backing of someone rich like Paul Allen) is probably the most likely way people will ever get to know the truth of the subject.

Further to this, someone will have to convince Seth that we're all on the same side, and despite the fact that he would lose his job if we discovered proof of UFO's, the fact that it would be the biggest discovery in human history would just about make up for this.

[Aaron LeClair]

I've always had a problem with the SETI folks... why are we sure at all that if someone were there they'd be using radio. Seems very anthropomorphic.

We, doesn't mean me. Ew. But to be fair....

I guess they think being anthropomorphic is good when dealing with ETs. It can be useful, unless you forget you're doing it.

Radio waves is a possibility, not the only one. I've not heard Seti scientists deny that there are other possibilities. They think radio waves is currently the best bet.

Stanton Friedman calls SETI Silly Effort To Investigate. I don't disagree.

[Irishseekers]

Seti the only thing it will ever find or hear, Is the radio station that plays in the background of there office