Black Triangles

[Tom Levine]

I thought I'd go ahead and start a new thread on black triangles, and see if anyone else might be interested in the subject.

I've been adding some discussion into THIS THREAD about black triangles as a possible explanation to the Phoenix Lights 1997 sightings, and felt maybe we could refocus a discussion onto strictly Black Triangles.

Post anything you'd like about the subject: Opinions, conjecture, speculation, evidence, facts, etc.

I'm personally most interested in Links, Photos, Videos, etc...

I've noticed that since NIDS came out with their final report on the subject in August, 2004, the discussion, and even maybe the wave of sightings, seems to have gone relatively cold. That's odd, isn't it?

I've been scouring the web looking for new cases to read about, new photos to look at, maybe even new videos to watch.

So, to begin with, here's ONE THAT I FOUND, a reported black triangle sighting in March of 2005 out of Westwego, Louisiana. The photo was taken by a 13 year old, who thought he was just taking a picture of a sunset. HERE'S ANOTHER SHOT. I couldn't find any reports of this particular triangle at NUFORC for March of 2005. I've been trying to find a good close-up of this triangle, and haven't been successful except for a thumb of it HERE. Scroll down until you get to Louisiana, 2005, and you'll see it there.

[The Hawk]

Do you think they are secret military craft?
I don't.
If they are military craft then they are proof of reverse engineered alien craft IMO. Radar of one in Belgium seen by multiple military witnesses, was tracked with acceleration far beyond what would kill a human and there was not any sound. Of course some black triangles are different looking than others so some might be human made some not.

TAarbrhw4CU

[Aaron LeClair]

I have a Unsolved Mysteries show on the Belgian triangle linked in the alien ufo vid thread. Here it is again.
http://www.videosoftheunknown.com/vu...60020988011597

One other triangle vid over there, but when I went to review it only sound came on, no vid. Don't know if it's due to my new PC or if the site that has it is having problems.

[fitzbew88]

According to Jim Moseley (of Saucer Smear fame), Karl Pflock often "hinted" that the triangles were military.

The inference is that because of Karl's government work (CIA), he had inside knowledge of some matters still hidden from the rest of us.

Of course, this leaves us with a great big 'ole problem: historical sightings of triangles that pre-date any kind of "modern" technology.

I also noticed (with some interest), the online edition of Saucer Smear that mentions this has been mangled in a rather interesting way. The reference to Karl's "hint" has been obscured but the original text is still there in the page source.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence....right? ;-)

Here's the link. Scroll down to the last "Tidbits of Trash" entry.

http://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v49/ss020915.htm

[Noanswers]

Good idea, Tom. I think we took the Phoenix Lights discussion far afield.
If I remember correctly (Gene may remember) there was a sighting of a Triangle up in Leupp, Arizona. Leupp is about 40 miles due east of Flagstaff. Apparently it lasted a long time and was viewed by many people living on the Navajo reservation. In addition, if I remember correctly (I'm kicking myself for not having a link to the local paper up there. . .I can't find the story now) the people claimed they watched the thing hover over their area for an extended period, and it was then chased away by two fighter aircraft. . .only to return some time after the three of them disappeared over the horizon.
I'm not one to go in for all of the "new agie" aspects of the UFOs, but I did find it interesting that someone in the article said that they see them all the time.
I'll keep looking and see if I can come up with a link.
The story struck me as very credible, be the thing a black op craft or something else.

[Tom Levine]

Guys, this is AWESOME! I'm so glad there's a mutual interest here on the subject.

I have to go pick up my daughter from daycare, but later 2nite I'll post back with comments. It's going to be fun sifting through the videos and the links, like the stuff on "Saucer Smear", the Unsolved Mysteries video, and the Leupp Arizona sighting.

Any immediate input on the New Orleans 2005 photo from my first post? Did you find it impressive or did it appear to be a likely hoaxed image? I'm a little concerned that we don't reallly know who the originator of this photo is, only his first name and last initial. That said, the triangle looks consistent to other photos and stories, and the overall sunset, with the odd, black spot in the upper right corner, is striking, and even if hoaxed, gives a great perspective of the triangle in terms of dimension. I wonder if this photo has ever been analyzed for authenticity, or triangulated to attempt to measure out the dimensions of the triangle.

[Noanswers]

OK- Let's dig into this a bit.
A process of elimination might be a good way to start. Sort of like taking a standardized test and getting rid of the answers you know are incorrect.
What characteristics would have to be present (in some cases such as 89-90 Belgium radar verified) to discount at least what we think to be of human origin. Obviously, something like instaneous dissapearance or transmogrification would apply. But what about more mundane facets:

Does anyone know what the largest man-made flying (floating?) object is today?

What is the top speed of any flying object (I assume airplane or maybe missle) in use today?

[Tom Levine]

Originally Posted by The Hawk

Do you think they are secret military craft?
I don't.
If they are military craft then they are proof of reverse engineered alien craft IMO. Radar of one in Belgium seen by multiple military witnesses, was tracked with acceleration far beyond what would kill a human and there was not any sound. Of course some black triangles are different looking than others so some might be human made some not.

I think there's several different phenomenon that may be taking place.

The one which has received the most extensive scientific study, has been the black triangle flap between 1980 and 2004, which I'd classify as the modern Black Triangle sightings, and which may or may not include the Belgium sightings from 1989. This modern phenomenon must be interpreted as irrefutable. It has thousands of witnessess spanning 25 years, the testimony from those witnesses are consistent, the photographic evidence is consistent, the videographic evidence as well, and if you include the Belgium sighting in the "modern black triangle" flap, then there is also concrete military testimony, and amazing radar evidence as well. No reasonable person can dispute that this is a very real phenomenon.

But, what is it?

I'm most inclined to buy into the original findings of the NIDS group: ""...NIDS researchers contend that these type vehicles are lighter-than-air, blimp-style craft of the U.S. military's making. Likely powered by "electrokinetic" drive, the lifting body-shaped airships have been skirting the skies from perhaps the early to mid 1980s..."

I'll post some links at the end, but personally, I believe the most likely prototype we are seeing is the Dynairship II, a hybrid airship patented by Aereon. I'm not the first to believe that this could be the original concept we are seeing, and NIDS gives reference to it as well. The reason I am most suspicious of AEREON is it's vast prior history in the airship industry worldwide, it's heavy influence in pushing these modern designs in the 80's through 90's, and it's sudden, unusual silence.

As to Arizona, Illinois, and the virtually thousands of reports studied and analyzed by NIDS over this 25 year period, their original analysis that we are looking at "Stealth Blimps" of sorts, makes extremely good sense.

I should also note that NIDS also came out in 2004, 2 years after their first announced conclusion, with a second, final conclusion, which is that they backed away from their original findings. This conclusion presented 4 possibilities, of which Stealth Blimps was only one. They indicated that the triangle sightings are seen wide-open, often over interstate highways and large population centers. Illinois and Phoenix would be 2 very perfect examples of this. This behavior, according to NIDS, is inconsistent with a Department of Defense media drip to reveal a prior black-ops aircraft (such as how they handled the Stealth B-2). NIDS notes, in this 2004 report, other data (such as testimony with regard to speed, size, maneuverability, etc.) which would be inconsistent with their prior findings.

One other fairly inconvenient truth, is that NIDS almost completely stopped all activity after their August 2004 report. Why? It's odd that first they came out with high confidence in reporting that the phenomenon is the result of advanced classified Airships; Then, 2 years later, they completely change their mind. Then, they cease virtually all activity. Why? What happened? Why the sudden change, and then the sudden silence? What does that mean?

Hawk, as to the question of reverse engineering, and the prior sightings before the modern black triangle flap, it is entirely possible that we are looking at different phenomenon. I would entertain the notion that there could be ET craft out there. The Belgium radar evidence remains unexplained to this day, for example.

But with regard to the majority of evidence gathered, and relying on the NIDS research from earlier this decade, I find the Stealth Blimp explanation the most likely out of the 4 prospective expanations they came up with.

and I can go on and on and on of course, but here are some links:

AEREON
DYNAIRSHIP II
NIDS
NIDS REPORT 1, 2002
NIDS REPORT 1 AS REPORTED IN SPACE.COM, 2002
NIDS REPORT 2
NIDS REPORT 2 AS REPORTED IN SPACE.COM, 2004
OTHER EXAMPLES OF LTA AND AIRSHIP MANUFACTURERS 1, 2, 3
A RECENT DEFENSE ARTICLE ABOUT LTA AND AIRSHIPS

[Tom Levine]

Originally Posted by fitzbew88

According to Jim Moseley (of Saucer Smear fame), Karl Pflock often "hinted" that the triangles were military.

The inference is that because of Karl's government work (CIA), he had inside knowledge of some matters still hidden from the rest of us.

Of course, this leaves us with a great big 'ole problem: historical sightings of triangles that pre-date any kind of "modern" technology.

I also noticed (with some interest), the online edition of Saucer Smear that mentions this has been mangled in a rather interesting way. The reference to Karl's "hint" has been obscured but the original text is still there in the page source.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence....right? ;-)

Here's the link. Scroll down to the last "Tidbits of Trash" entry.

http://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v49/ss020915.htm

Very interesting tie-in.

First off, Karl Pflock passed away in 2006. Here's a brief report about his passing.

Here's a bio on Mr. Pflock.

Here is a VIDEO of Mr. Pflock discussing his perspective on the ET reality.

I'm pleased, of course, that Mr. Pflock bolsters my belief that we are likely looking at modern Stealth Blimps. He does appear to have a respectable background. It does indeed appear that Mr. Pflock worked for the Department of Defense and had a series of political and governmental positions through the 80's. He is more widely known as a respectable, award winning UFOlogist...Essentially, one of the good guys. After watching the short video and listening to him speak briefly, he certainly offers a very compelling version of the ET reality.

I'd love to see testimony military or governmental sources with regard to classified or unclassified Airship technology, that are not affiliated with the UFO scene. That would be a much more unbiased, unfiltered version of the facts.

Anyway, great post on the subject!

[Tom Levine]

Originally Posted by Noanswers

Good idea, Tom. I think we took the Phoenix Lights discussion far afield.
If I remember correctly (Gene may remember) there was a sighting of a Triangle up in Leupp, Arizona. Leupp is about 40 miles due east of Flagstaff. Apparently it lasted a long time and was viewed by many people living on the Navajo reservation. In addition, if I remember correctly (I'm kicking myself for not having a link to the local paper up there. . .I can't find the story now) the people claimed they watched the thing hover over their area for an extended period, and it was then chased away by two fighter aircraft. . .only to return some time after the three of them disappeared over the horizon.
I'm not one to go in for all of the "new agie" aspects of the UFOs, but I did find it interesting that someone in the article said that they see them all the time.
I'll keep looking and see if I can come up with a link.
The story struck me as very credible, be the thing a black op craft or something else.

Awesome! Yes, this sure looks like a solid current triangle sighting, from 1-24-07, out of Northeastern Arizona

NEWS ARTICLE

Another article..SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM

No pictures or videos captured that I'm aware of, however, it does appear that there are a number of corroborating witnesses. I find it particularly interesting that one of the witnesses described other military aircraft flying around, and saw a possible refueling of the craft...One of the statements was that Leupp is a "hot bed" for UFOs, that they've been seeing them for 15 to 17 years. That would certainly fit the right time-frame for the black triangles phenomenon.