1st June Show with Dr. Bernard Haisch

[Poi]

I can't prove nuttin,' but I believe Haisch made the distinction between getting lost in a moment of music with being suddenly aware of one's place in the universe. While the former is enriching and a positive effect of our ability to feel and become the music, in a sense, the latter is a vastly different kettle of fish. It's more like a download of information not connected to any human endeavor other than the desire to be done with suffering, in my experience anyway.

When the intent is great enough, perhaps "pure" is a better term, and one is looking for a way out of suffering, (a term that can mean emotional pain, negative thinking, any number of ill producing phenomena) and has seen some error in his behavior or thinking, the download can be very abrupt or less so, but there's no mistaking it for the swelling of a heart over a beautiful sunset or music that stirs the soul.

From my experience, and I've been told that I'm incorrect often enough, one has to have come to the conclusion that he has been mistaken in his world view in some large way. There has to be some movement for betterment within and the admission that one has been incorrect in the most fundamental aspect of living and relating before the Big Picture is suddenly downloaded.

Maybe it's a matter of just asking the right questions with intent to discover, but that route never did diddlysquat for me. I had to admit I'd been wrong about how the world works and how I'd mistakenly operated from my perspective without guilt (judgment) for my mistake. "Something Is Wrong" is the thing we have to pluck out of our individual association with guilt, I think.

I don't know how those things came into play, but they were crucial, intent and non-judgment, I'm sure. I did have a desire to move past suffering too. Take that for what it's worth.

What happens within that Eureka moment is indescribable, something sorely intended, I'm sure, because we don't come out of it with the ability to suddenly live a Dalai Lama-like existence. As shattering as the experience is, we are still fallible and unwise with maybe a better sense that we are part of something incredible, even with our mistakes. We're left with a desire to look at things with new eyes even if we find that difficult. We're kinder to ourselves more often which in turn makes us kinder to those near us, sometimes anyway. Sounds puny, but tripping there isn't. It leaves us changed.

[BrandonD]

Originally Posted by Snoman

Seems to me mankind is heading the other direction and the decline of consciousness will eventually break the foundation of existence rather than contribute to understanding it.

Good point, please forgive my momentary fit of optimism. If you were to ask my honest opinion I'd guess that the truth is in between, and humanity is static. Only the outer forms are changing while internally we remain the same. Within this situation individuals might have the possibility to change but humanity at large cannot.

I picture a big organ in a body, with the individual cells serving the function of the organ. A few individual cells might change without affecting the functioning of the organ, but a large number of the cells cannot.

That's my hunch anyway.

[valiens]

Haisch has it almost correct, except there is no He/She/It creating the universe and divorced from it. There is only Being. In Being is Creating. Intelligence didn't decide to descend into matter to experience the physical, it has no choice, as the physical is also it. No divide. Just ISness.

To step outside of psychological time is to step into Isness, to assume the identity of Intelligence, and to experience this. That's what meditation aims to do, except it's not a good tool; it's all junked up with definitions and exercises, visualizations, etc. The things that we think of as meditations, ways, and paths come from the state they try to attain, they aren't paths to it. This is where we went wrong long ago: Translating these emanations from that state as a means to get there. They can't be. They are all thoughts, disciplines--and here we are back in psychological time.

The only thing "to do" is get this at such a deep level that the brain shuts up, quits, commits ego suicide. This is the only way. "The Way Of No Way" as Bruce Lee called it. Die to the known so that the unknown may reveal "itself." Everything else is a defense mechanism, including saying you're doing just that.

[Poi]

Die to the known so that the unknown may reveal "itself."

Yep, that's it.

[Rob]

The Reasoning Show is a podcast that deals with some the topics raised in this thread, and may provide some pointers into the absolute, the totality, in a series of interviews and online discussions/debates "aimed at the very heart of matters".

And the three hosts have big proper philosopher-sized beards.

[Brian Now]

Originally Posted by BrandonD

Here's an interesting mystery: all the thoughtful people I know suffer from a sense that they are in a state of disconnection and ignorance. We have no idea why we are here, we do not know the future, and our consciousness is most definitely separate from the outside world. And yet, this has been our condition for the duration of our life. We know of nothing else.

Many people who grew up in the 1970s and 80s feel this way. I think this has sociological roots more than anything else. So we've been in the same condition all our lives like you say, but thanks to the media (all forms) we have always had something to compare ourselves to. I mean, you can always find somebody on TV, either real or a character that has it together and compare yourself to them (and come up short)...well, I do anyway! I don't mean to start a discussion about psychology and the media.

These problems affect us spiritually of course, and the solutions themselves might be termed 'spiritual' too.

[Brian Now]

Originally Posted by Rob

And the three hosts have big proper philosopher-sized beards.

Indeed! Thanks for that, I am going to check it out.

Has anyone hear read Thomas Campbell's My Big TOE (theory of everything)??
I have ordered the 3-book set but not received it yet. Similar ideas as Haisch apparently.

[BrandonD]

Originally Posted by Brian Now

Many people who grew up in the 1970s and 80s feel this way. I think this has sociological roots more than anything else. So we've been in the same condition all our lives like you say, but thanks to the media (all forms) we have always had something to compare ourselves to. I mean, you can always find somebody on TV, either real or a character that has it together and compare yourself to them (and come up short)...well, I do anyway! I don't mean to start a discussion about psychology and the media.

These problems affect us spiritually of course, and the solutions themselves might be termed 'spiritual' too.

Yea I agree, even though the condition doesn't appear to be so it might be something sociologically rooted.

[Aaron LeClair]

The only thing "to do" is get this at such a deep level that the brain shuts up, quits, commits ego suicide. This is the only way. "The Way Of No Way" as Bruce Lee called it. Die to the known so that the unknown may reveal "itself." Everything else is a defense mechanism, including saying you're doing just that.

I liked something I read in one of the Conversations With God books. It talks about how people are always trying to do this, and do that and all we wind up with is a great big pile of do-do. We're human beings, not human doings blah blah. It then talks about beingness etc. which you might like. Check the books out sometime. Neale Donald Walsh is the author.

I also like the statement life isn't a process of discovery so much as a process of creation. We spend a lot of time looking for answers, when God gave us the ability to create them etc.

[Brian Now]

Originally Posted by Paranormal Packrat

I liked something I read in one of the Conversations With God books.

I like the general stuff I read in his first book I think. Look like later he let his imagination go wild.

Back to Haisch. He said it was some kind of mystery how a photon knows where it's going because it experiences no time or space. I don't understand the question I guess.
We all know that traveling at the speed of light means you won't experience time passing (so, please don't post a summary of relativity). But whether the photon experiences time passing or space itself is sort of irrelevant to where it goes. It goes where it is aimed and hits whatever it happens to hit. Does anyone understand what he was talking about?