Perpetuated Fallacies of Ghost Hunters

[Poi]

This thread got me interested in watching more of those shows. I've never been much interested in ghosts even though I did have one strange experience a few years ago. Still, the plausibly subjective experience has me less convinced there was a ghost but maybe some sort of settling of a lifelong mental/emotional process instead. In other words, I think I rewarded myself with a night time visit of someone I loved/hated. The hate end of that relationship was gone and I got myself a happy visitor. My understanding of that episode morphs on occasion though. Just guessing.

Having watched many "A Haunting" on Stage 6, which has now shut down its video viewing site, and a large number of TAPS as well as Ghost Hunters, I find the reality shows hugely entertaining if only for the way in which the hunters scare themselves silly. I'm not discounting that some are genuine weirdness, but mostly those guys are jumpy as a box of cats so anything of ordinary occurence can set them off. Great fun.

[Ankhes]

I also enjoy these shows even tho I don't believe them. Well, maybe there is something genuinely strange going on in a small percentage of them, but I am troubled by the same old same old such as -
-portals to hell in every other house or so
-people buy a home, a few weird things happen so it HAS to be a dead person moving about
-a kid sees or hears something (gee, how weird)
-they need a religious blessing
-they need a religious exorcism
-psychics are real so use them as much as possible
-orbs are high level demons according to Mrs. Warren
-someone died in the house or on the land at one time so they have to haunt the place
-9 times out of 10 it isn't a "human" haunting but a "demon." (Man, demons must be bored silly to get their jollies out of scaring ordinary people and/or targeting a college kid)
- ghosts can't ever write down something useful or say something really useful, instead they scratch people and toss tape dispensers across the room
-christianity is the only way to get rid of such problems as outlined above

But I still can't help but enjoy these shows. Yes, great fun as Poi says. I do love to kick back for an hour or so and just plain enjoy.

[Jose Collado]

I'll admit I love watching these shows as well. I could watch and argue till I'm blue in the face as to why a lot of what is show is false. But it's much more fun to just sit back and enjoy it for what it is...entertainment.

[Raevenskye]

Ankhes, you're right on the money! I get so tired of everything being a "demon" I can't see straight! Most of the time, all the "bait" is on the previews is someone screaming at a spider!

[Ankhes]

Originally Posted by Raevenskye

Ankhes, you're right on the money! I get so tired of everything being a "demon" I can't see straight! Most of the time, all the "bait" is on the previews is someone screaming at a spider!

Heh, I'm glad I'm not the only one! I've seen that same show but I'll admit that I think I would have jumped or yelped at a spider, too. One of my unfortunate phobias...

It would be fun to wander around interesting locations at night and wave equipment around and make money off it (in one way or another.) But at least we can sit back and enjoy the antics these shows provide.

Speaking of "A Haunting" it is on right now and there is a scene in "The Forgotten" where the "psychic" opens a door and gusts of wind and light come out and there is this big drama as the alleged spirits were finally able to leave the house. Yeah, right. That was too funny!

[Jose Collado]

Hey guys. I was involved in a TV show in Australia. We visited 15 locations and aired 13 episodes on national TV. I have to admit one thing, it was a long, painful process. I went from being an tame skeptic to being a hardcore skeptic. I'd sit and watch shows like Ghost Hunters when they got EMF spikes and claimed there was no one in the room with them at the time and shake my head. No one in the room with them? Apart from the camera men, gaffer, sound guy, execs etc etc. Yeah, not a single electronic device in the room apart from the "ghost" radiating EMF. EMF is about as plausible as me waving a feather duster in the air claiming it opens a doorway to hell.

Funny thing is...I get absolutely attacked over my skepticism. I mean really, viciously attacked. If I were to make speculative claims that EMF meters measured EMF which is generated by "ghosts" then people have no problem with me. On the other hand, when I actually state there is zero proof of anything, theories simply "exist" with little or no genuine research into its origins, EMF spikes are due to the electrical architecture of buildings and fluctuations could be as simple as an air conditioner turning on somewhere, EMF meters aren't calibrated and poorly manufactured...etc etc....that's when I get the entire paranormal community jumping down my throat.

When I hear the words "scientific method" being thrown around I cringe. I have challenged many people who claim to use it to expose their methods. None use scientific method because scientific method doesn't simply mean "walking around in the dark with useless equipment". It means having a hypothesis, doing research, asking questions, testing the hypothesis, repeating the experiment over and over and most importantly, using equipment that is properly calibrated and fit for the purpose. I could honestly slap people when they mention scientific method. Where is their research material? Why isn't it being presented for peer scrutiny? Then finally, you can sit back and review the results. It the hypothesis is found to be true then great, if not, repeat the experiment. One thing I highly doubt is people's ability to accept the facts.

"In search of the truth". Truth? Truth is subjective to opinion. Are people actually seeking truth or are they simply looking for people to reinforce their belief? If people are in search of the truth then they must be prepared to accept the truth. I have been asked to present facts supporting a recent argument. I presented them and the people who requested it simply ignored it. They were allegedly in search of truth. The argument I made was a famous psychic had made false claims in her book. The facts were, I presented her book, noted the page and line. Right there, in front of them, in black and white. A book written by the person I was making a point against. Their response "Show me your FACTS". HUH? You wrote it dumbass! Fact.

Anyway...I have major issues with a lot in the paranormal. When I hear the word "paranormal" it simply translates to "bullshit". Things like EMF, EVP, Frank's Box, ITC, ORBS ETC DRIVE ME INSANE.

Ok here's one thing that recently had me come under fire. The Frank's Box. It is essentially a broken radio. Nothing more. It has no new technology because I have the exact same device in my car. It's called a radio with a seek function. Problem is this...they claim the device is an exact replica of the device being used by an engineer on "the other side". So my argument...well, one of them....ONE OF MANY...is, ok so you have a receiver on this end and the "engineer" has a receiver on the other end. None are equipped with a transmitter...so who the hell is transmitting? You are talking to a radio so how does the engineer hear you and how do you hear the engineer? Man...I swear...I could totally strangle people who believe this tripe.

One thing is certain. It takes a lot more work to be skeptical than it does to be a hardline believer. I can research and present facts till I'm blue in the face but a true believer always has the typical safety net excuses on hand. No proof is ever good enough for a skeptic. Which is total BS. If you present genuine evidence, then a skeptic has no choice to acknowledge it as fact.

Arrrrggghhh!!!

Saw Ghost Hunters and some dude was wearing a barometer watch. People went insane trying to buy them down here so they too could have the latest gadget. A barometer on a watch? Thats an expensive way to tell the time and avoid a storm. Now allegedly, "evidence" has shown that spirit activity is greater during a storm. Really? Evidence? Soooo...where exactly is this "evidence"? Ohhhh...no they must have meant "theory". Another theory that someone plucked from thin air.

I agree that scientists work with theories all the time. Thats a common argument. Unfortunately, there's a difference between someone who has spent some time in school, scored some decent creds, faced with stringent peer scrutiny on a daily basis and actually have something to back a theory as opposed to someone who simply has a theory because....I dunno....they just have one.

Oh man..."in theory" kills me. There's just WAY too much "in theory" and not enough research into these theories.

Skeptics aren't welcome. A lot of people make claims they are skeptical in hopes of it helping their cause with their next "orb has a face" photo. I question whether they understand the meaning of the word "skepticism". A lot of skeptics don;t even understand it. Some skeptics are nothing more than cynics. I don't waste my energy with hardline believers or cynics. They're both blind in my opinion. People label me as negative and I guess I can appear that way. I just want a big shovel to dig a deep hole for all the BS that seems to have a nice price tag attached.

[~Foo Fighter~]

Originally Posted by Jose Collado

Would love some feedback on perpetuated fallacies from ghost hunters in general. Devices, techniques and theories involved.

Examples:
- Uncalibrated devices
- Stating assumptions as fact
- Theories that come from thin air

I'll throw a few more in when I get time.

Interested in what skeptical eyes can see is wrong with this scene. Would be cool to get some help to highlight these

I've been trained to use a thermography camera...here is my rant about their use in "Ghost Hunter" shows.

http://theparacast.com/forums/paranormal-researchers-and-thermography-cameras-t-1794.html

~Foo Fighter~

[Jose Collado]

EXACTLY! I highly doubt anyone in these shows is qualified to operate these devices and make assumptions about what they capture with them. I have said it time and time again, thermal cameras are great when you use them for their designed purpose. I have seen them being used on machinery, pest control and by the fire brigade and every simple person that uses the camera has been trained to use it.

We used one not long ago. Not to find "ghosts" but to show just how flawed these devices are when they're being used for a purpose they aren't designed for. We spoke with an engineer who uses them professionally and he pointed out so many problems with them in regard to "ghost hunters".

To put it simply, this is just another gadget being pimped by the paranormal community that is absolutely useless.

I have been hitting many speculative theories hard and the response is almost the same..."How do we know if the device isn't relevant if we don't test the theory?" Easy...don't test the theory. Question it. Find out where the theory came from, who came up with it and why. Do some real research and leave the testing of the equipment till the very end. I can almost guarantee if people bothered to look into these theories and the devices being used to support them, then they'd realise that testing the theory by simply walking around with a thermal camera, EMF meter etc, it virtually useless.

I recently saw a clip where a cast member of Ghost Hunters was speaking with a psychic and recording it with a thermal camera. All of a sudden, a huge heat signature passes from the psychic to the cast member. That was almost instant;y taken as proof of a psychic aura. The claims were "There's only two people on camera and there's a wall behind them so there's no chance it was fake". Not fake? Really? Hey, last time I checked, there was a broadcast camera filming these guys, a sound crew, lighting, gaffer etc etc. Probably 10 people standing behind the camera. The shape of the "aura" was rectangular. Not sure if there are many natural perfectly rectangular shapes on this planet. The wall can reflect a heat signature and chances are, even if this wasn't staged, then someone behind the camera may have accidentally reflected some light when they were moving something. There is more going against the "psychic aura" theory than there is for it.

Thermal cameras proof of the paranormal...or just a waste of time? I have tried to steer people away from them and my grind my teeth when I hear people are forking out $10k for one. All I know is, you're better off donating the $10k to medical research or your local animal refuge because you aint capturing jack with a thermal camera and at least the money will be put to good use.

[Jigoku Bosatsu]

Well, I have to say that I love the show Ghost Hunters. It's fun, my g/f likes to watch with me, and I can pretty much suspend my disbelief the entire time. Wait, should I have to suspend disbelief on a reality show?

I think as far as the evidence is concerned, there are some fascinating things that we see... apparitions mainly. Really only a few explanations come to mind... they are completely making up the most dramatic shots, they have terrible experimental control and the production staff are intentionally or unintentionally bunging things up, or they have lucked out and caught some cool paranormal action on tape.

My main problem is with their methodology. Every time I hear one of them say "Did you see that?" followed by a clumsy camera swing, I cringe. Why isn't every man, woman, and child on that show wearing a head-mounted camera? Why aren't there cameras covering every spot in their locations, recording audio and video at all times? They have enough money and people to do it. I question their sincerity on this matter... they claim to want to find good evidence but don't really go far enough to do it.

If the Rolling Stones came to your studio and gave you a million dollars, and said that they might create their best song ever at some point in the course of a session, you would be a fool not to record every second, right?

[digigeek]

Originally Posted by Jose Collado

...Things like EMF, EVP, Frank's Box, ITC, ORBS ETC DRIVE ME INSANE.

Ok here's one thing that recently had me come under fire. The Frank's Box. It is essentially a broken radio. Nothing more. It has no new technology because I have the exact same device in my car. It's called a radio with a seek function. Problem is this...they claim the device is an exact replica of the device being used by an engineer on "the other side". So my argument...well, one of them....ONE OF MANY...is, ok so you have a receiver on this end and the "engineer" has a receiver on the other end. None are equipped with a transmitter...so who the hell is transmitting? You are talking to a radio so how does the engineer hear you and how do you hear the engineer? Man...I swear...I could totally strangle people who believe this tripe.

Hello? Are you at the beach?

Great video, Jose. Loved it!