Someone Drilled a hole in the Sky

[gilbavel]

I was brought up Jewish, but have been agnostic for years and an outright atheist lately, thanks to the God Delusion and just about everything that Chris Hitchens wrote (although I certainly don't agree with him politically) about religion.

Okay.

Today, I see the total solar eclipse footage from China:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...65921#25965921

And I wonder....

Is the fact that we live in a time that the moon exactly covers the sun from the Earth during totality proof of God?

Discuss.

(After you watch the footage).

The moon has (allegedly) been spinning out from the Earth 2.0 for billions of years.

Gene, David--anyone out there with a science degree--what are the odds that we would be born and alive in a period where the moon covers up the sun exactly?

Okay, run with it, guys.

[Tony2013]

Originally Posted by gilbavel

I was brought up Jewish, but have been agnostic for years and an outright atheist lately, thanks to the God Delusion and just about everything that Chris Hitchens wrote (although I certainly don't agree with him politically) about religion.

Okay.

Today, I see the total solar eclipse footage from China:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...65921#25965921

And I wonder....

Is the fact that we live in a time that the moon exactly covers the sun from the Earth during totality proof of God?

Discuss.

(After you watch the footage).

The moon has (allegedly) been spinning out from the Earth 2.0 for billions of years.

Gene, David--anyone out there with a science degree--what are the odds that we would be born and alive in a period where the moon covers up the sun exactly?

Okay, run with it, guys.

Well the odds are fairly high, I would say. It could just be one of those cosmic coincidences, but that would largely depend on how you interpret coincidence.

And if it's not a coincidence... what sort of significance is it that the moon covers the sun perfectly during a full eclipse? Is it a model of God's unity, that all things eventually fit into each other perfectly?

I think you're meant to decide for yourself. Personally I don't see anything special in it, just very fascinating. I definitely think there is a god, just not the God of the Bible, the one that's going to judge me and send me to hell because he loves me more than anything.

[Experiencer7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceship_Moon_Theory

My nose is 37 inches from my ass. That's intelligent design.

[exo_doc]

Originally Posted by xperiancer7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceship_Moon_Theory

My nose is 37 inches from my ass. That's intelligent design.

I can't remember who said it, but here's another one about the Cosmic Engineer;

"Intelligent Design? What "intelligent designer" of the human body would put the septic system running right under the playground?"

[Chuckleberryfinn]

It proves nothing except that the moon almost perfectly covers the sun in an eclipse.

[gilbavel]

Originally Posted by Chuckleberryfinn

It proves nothing except that the moon almost perfectly covers the sun in an eclipse.

Okay, well, I was trying to promote a little contemplative conversation, not start a fire, or a discussion about "intelligent design".

Is it a conspiracy theory or not, that there could be evidence for a non-interfering creator (beyond the majesty that is the mystery that a single blade of grass grows at all in the first place) in the fact that the moon fits exactly over the sun during totality? Does it inspire you to think about God? Does it make you wonder about the question of Life, the Universe and Everything any more than anything else?

It's a really simple question--do you believe yes, that it's a conspiracy theory, or not? I'm not asking for any other criteria--just your opinion.

It's something that's occurred to me over the course of my life--having experienced a total eclipse twice, and being in the bizarre after-effect of the shadows of everything--leaves, for instance--taking on the shape of the darkening moon.

The miracles of the Old Testament are so far in the distant past, and so unreliable as to their authorship, or even their reality, that we have to work with what we've got. There are no burning bushes, or sticks to snakes or water to wine in our time--not as far as I've seen.

I could believe that a creator God (in the deist, Spinoza, non-interfering sense) might have left clues for us, and I'm curious if any of you that have thought about it agree. The ONE that really pops out for me is this total eclipse issue.

Which is why I asked for anyone with science backgrounds stronger than mine (or even just plain old mathematics backgrounds) to offer up a statistical probability (generally speaking, I'm not going to hold you to it) to hazard a guess as to what the odds are that this would happen in our lifetimes.

I mean, sure, eventually someone would live in such a time (assuming the planet and its inhabitants survived that long, which is a stretch in itself). The religious among us might simply add the phenomenon onto all the rest of what they see as the "end times" scenario, and recommend that it's just another sign of our impending doom.

That's not what I'm after. I guess I'm asking each of you for your own personal opinion about this phenomenon in and of itself, if you're willing to consider it, and wiling to go out on a limb and share it.

It's certainly not paranormal, not in the sense we understand it.

But it is damned coincidental--and extremely improbable.

Perhaps a better question might be this--what, if anything, can you think of, would be better proof for the existence of God than this?

[Chuckleberryfinn]

Originally Posted by gilbavel

Perhaps a better question might be this--what, if anything, can you think of, would be better proof for the existence of God than this?

Since the eclipse doesn't prove the existence of God, the question is irrelevant. There isn't anything that proves the existence of God better because the item of comparison itself isn't a proof.

Here is an example of what actually would prove the existence of God:

God rearranging the stars in the sky to spell a message in all human languages that He created the heavens and the Earth. This would, I think, constitute proof.

[mike]

personally im a fan of the idea the moon was placed in orbit, by aliens.
in that context the question becomes one of did they make it that size or place it in that orbit with the results described on purpose.

there may well be an intellect behind the phenomena, but it doesnt have to be a gods one

it may just be a random co incidence, or a massive engineering feat.

nothing screams "god" at me from the facts

[BrandonD]

Originally Posted by mike

personally im a fan of the idea the moon was placed in orbit, by aliens.
in that context the question becomes one of did they make it that size or place it in that orbit with the results described on purpose.

there may well be an intellect behind the phenomena, but it doesnt have to be a gods one

it may just be a random co incidence, or a massive engineering feat.

nothing screams "god" at me from the facts

Not only does the moon perfectly cover the sun, but its orbit is arranged so that only one side ever faces the earth. Both of these facts are very peculiar from my point of view.

I also think the idea that the moon might be an artificial satellite (or in some way artifically modified) is compelling.

[Astroboy]

Originally Posted by BrandonD

Not only does the moon perfectly cover the sun, but its orbit is arranged so that only one side ever faces the earth. Both of these facts are very peculiar from my point of view.

I also think the idea that the moon might be an artificial satellite (or in some way artifically modified) is compelling.

Most major moons in the solar system have synchronous rotation (same face of orbiting objects faces the object being orbited around) due to tidal locking. Pluto and its moon Charon perpetually face each other. Nothing unusual here.

We are not living in any special times because the moon perfectly fits over the sun during an eclipse. The moon is moving away from the Earth at such a slow rate (3.8cm/year) that there would have been no perceivable difference in the look of the eclipse 10,000 years ago. You would have to go back several million years to see a difference.

As far as the moon being an artificial satellite...whatever makes your reality more interesting, dude.

A greater mystery is how Paulie Shore became famous.