H.P. Lovecraft

[Experiencer7]

Many of Lovecraft's,(1890-1937) stories espouse the theory of an advanced, prehistorical, non-human civilization; Interdimensional and extraterrestrial beings who played a role in the creation of humanity. Clues to the existence of said beings found in anomalous artifacts, ancient ruins and in the mystical rites and tomes of ancient cults.
Sound familiar?
I am curious as to what sources., (literary or historical), led to his creation of this mythos.
Reply., please.

[Experiencer7]

"Now all my tales are based on the fundamental premise that common human laws and interests and emotions have no validity or significance in the vast cosmos-at-large. To me there is nothing but puerility in a tale in which the human form--and the local human passions and conditions and standards--are depicted as native to other worlds or other universes. To achieve the essence of real externality, whether of time or space or dimension, one must forget that such things as organic life, good and evil, love and hate, and all such local attributes of a negligible and temporary race called mankind, have any existence at all. Only the human scenes and characters must have human qualities. These must be handled with unsparing realism, (not catch-penny romanticism) but when we cross the line to the boundless and hideous unknown-the shadow-haunted Outside-we must remember to leave our humanity and terrestrialism at the threshold."

Lovecraft.,1927

[Poi]

I'm reading a book someone suggested at Jeremy's website recently. Have much more to read, but initially the author suggests our universe is one of devolution rather than evolution, citing as one example, the death of the cell. It's a universe of contradiction rather than the universe of perfection from which it sprang. Too convoluted, (and very well argued so far) for me to go into here, but under his premise, after the creation of a two dimensional framework, the natural potential for a third dimension and the striving for a fourth (impossible) took place.

However, the realm of angels (call it what you will, supernatural beings, a universe of Adams and eventually Eves) devolved to humans perhaps because of a force too difficult to overcome. In a universe of contradiction, the second law of thermodynamics, the law of entropy, requires devolution into chaos.

Geeze, don't know why I even started to comment on this because there is no way I can argue his point with any clarity or in the brief manner required of posting.

But his argument makes me wonder where he's going. The book's title and author: The Song of the Greys by Nigel Kerner. I am sure he is of the belief that the Greys are not good guys and that they are of extraterrestrial origin (or so it seems thus far.) What I'm wondering is if he means to eventually say that we will devolve spiritually into what the Greys may have become, leaving humanity and terrestrialism at the threshold. Seems to me there are two sides to that argument.

Had to buy it through an online used book store if anyone is interested. Not a fast read either, but I thank the person who mentioned it at the CoC. Very interesting read.

[Graphimancer]

I've read that HP's father may have been associated with or influence by the Theosophists, and a woman that HP knew was formerly in the circle of Aleister Crowley. I would imagine that either of these could be true, or merely the faint connections drummed up by enthusiastic would-be Lovecraft 'experts.'

I have also read that much of the Lovecraft Mythos, which is itself sort of fragmentary and no always consistent story to story, can be traced to the Sumerian mythos, but again this could be fact or wishful thinking on those who like to elevate HP from fiction writer to prophet.

"At the Mountains of Madness" is still one of my favorite stories ever.

[exo_doc]

"At the Mountains of Madness" is still one of my favorite stories ever.

That was a good book, but my favorite is still "The Case Of Charles Dexter Ward". HP must have had some knowledge about ceremonial magic, or knew someone who did.
Did I read somewhere he had one or more of Aleistar Crowleys books? That could explain some things, but not all of his knowledge.

[underdog]

Lovecraft was a voracious reader but rarely did anything, or went anywhere (and I do mean anything or anywhere). He lived his life in reading books, writing his letters, and in between his own ears. Most of his close personal friendships were amateur/semi professional writers like himself, who he spent most of his waking hours writing to.

His family was "genteel" but had little or no money, leaving H.P. to think himself a gentleman, above work and above taking money for his writing. He loved finery and yet sabotaged himself at almost every turn along the way to being a successful writer. Almost everything he wrote was in amateur publication and his work would have been in the dustbin of history had not several of his long-time friends not pitched in to put together a Lovecraft anthology at his death.

Note: I wouldn't say that the elder beings were NOT technologically advanced, most of them used magic/godlike ability or slave races to accomplish amazing feats of building. I think only the fungi from Yugoth were considered a technologically gifted race. Races like the Elder Things used Shoggoths as slaves to build the city at "the mountains of madness".

Finally, while I recommend reading the works of Lovecraft, be prepared for wildly varying quality of literature. Some of it is amazingly imaginative and very unsettling, but some is so stilted and the dialog so affected that it is truly painful to read. Dialog for H.P. was hard, I suspect he had so little experience actually talking to anyone he didn't know how to write it.

[Graphimancer]

I believe your right. I think he did most of his conversing in his letter writing to his wide circle of friends.

[spookyparadigm]

Originally Posted by underdog

Lovecraft was a voracious reader but rarely did anything, or went anywhere (and I do mean anything or anywhere). He lived his life in reading books, writing his letters, and in between his own ears. Most of his close personal friendships were amateur/semi professional writers like himself, who he spent most of his waking hours writing to.

His family was "genteel" but had little or no money, leaving H.P. to think himself a gentleman, above work and above taking money for his writing. He loved finery and yet sabotaged himself at almost every turn along the way to being a successful writer. Almost everything he wrote was in amateur publication and his work would have been in the dustbin of history had not several of his long-time friends not pitched in to put together a Lovecraft anthology at his death.

Note: I wouldn't say that the elder beings were NOT technologically advanced, most of them used magic/godlike ability or slave races to accomplish amazing feats of building. I think only the fungi from Yugoth were considered a technologically gifted race. Races like the Elder Things used Shoggoths as slaves to build the city at "the mountains of madness".

Finally, while I recommend reading the works of Lovecraft, be prepared for wildly varying quality of literature. Some of it is amazingly imaginative and very unsettling, but some is so stilted and the dialog so affected that it is truly painful to read. Dialog for H.P. was hard, I suspect he had so little experience actually talking to anyone he didn't know how to write it.

He travelled a fair amount given his money and the time. He visited as far as Florida and New Orleans south and Montreal north, and wrote about them (including a strange travel guide to Montreal written entirely in character from the perspective of an 18th century English gentleman).

He conversed with people from a much wider area of course, via letter. But in an era when a major portion of Americans didn't own cars, and there was no interstate system, it's not bad. He of course lived in New York for several years, having a rough time (failed job hunts, all of clothes were stolen), and marking a period of his life of virulent racism that eventually subsided, as can be seen in both his letters and fiction.

As for influences, the man was a teetotaller, and stayed away from drugs, didn't even drink alcohol. While extremely well read and knowledgeable about the topics that interested him (astronomy, Classical Rome), he had little practical knowledge of the world despite every good reason that he should have. For example, several of his literary friends, who he visited in New York, were gay but it wasn't until well into his adult life that Lovecraft even knew homosexuality existed. He was amiable and clearly charismatic in certain respects (he did form a formidable circle of friends around him), and had a self-deprecating sense of humor, but he was in many ways a fairly extreme example of what we would today call a nerd.

Lovecraft's father was not a major influence in his life. Instead, the great positive influence in his life is his grandfather, who instilled in him a great love of history, antiquity, and myth. Probably the second most positive influence on Lovecraft was his wife Sonia. During the years they were together, she clearly worked to open him up, and he realized it and appreciated it. Unfortunately, he had been raised by suffocating aunts, and eventually he returned to that environment in Providence and retreated into a modified form of childhood.

This was the period when he wrote the works he is most famous for, his cosmic horror that moved away from the occult. He was a very strong skeptic of Houdini, in the sense we would use skeptic today. He was proud of collaborating with Houdini on a story, and according to Lovecraft in his letters, and I believe him though he may have interpreted these plans as more solid than Houdini did, there were plans for Lovecraft to co-author a book and expose of the occult with Houdini, the greatest debunker of his day, plans that were cut short by Houdini's death.

As for Theosophy, Lovecraft was initially somewhat aware of it when a fellow weird fiction writer brought it to his attention more fully. Lovecraft thought it was utter bunk, but loved it as material for his stories.

[underdog]

If Lovecraft had stayed with his wife (whatever his sexual leanings) it is likely he would have become a famous author in his own time...especially if he had learned how to write in a more modern manner instead of being stuck in his overly wordy victorian style. (mood be damned, make some action man!)

She was about the only person in his life who insisted that he take his writing seriously and..GASP!!! try and earn some cash. THAT BITCH!!!

Its been about 10 years since I read his biography, but I think the term, nerd, is a bit nice on your part. Maybe later in life he had risen to the level of nerd, but initially his disfunctional view of life and a positively aristocratic sense of entitlement put him in the area of being almost delusional.

[Experiencer7]

Originally Posted by underdog

If Lovecraft had stayed with his wife (whatever his sexual leanings) it is likely he would have become a famous author in his own time...especially if he had learned how to write in a more modern manner instead of being stuck in his overly wordy victorian style. (mood be damned, make some action man!)

She was about the only person in his life who insisted that he take his writing seriously and..GASP!!! try and earn some cash. THAT BITCH!!!

Its been about 10 years since I read his biography, but I think the term, nerd, is a bit nice on your part. Maybe later in life he had risen to the level of nerd, but initially his disfunctional view of life and a positively aristocratic sense of entitlement put him in the area of being almost delusional.

Well., I see conversation has degraded to the level of personality. I don't care if he ate babies while wearing his mom's corset soaked from head to toe in whale oil. What was his source material?